LX/05-0022
Draft Minutes
INCITS Study Group on Linux
Meeting Number 8
Review of Ballot and Comments on Linux Standard Base PAS Submission (DIS
23360)
Teleconference Logistics:
Tuesday, June 7, 2005
16:00-17:00 Eastern
Dial-in Number: 1-913-643-5111
Participant Passcode: 448655#
| 1.1 Call to Order |
(D. Thewlis) |
Mr. Thewlis called the meeting to order at 16:10 Eastern Time
| 1.2 Introduction of New Members and Attendees |
(D. Thewlis)
|
The following members were in attendance:
Don Cragun, Sun
Ron Silletti, IBM
Nick Stoughton, USENIX
Dave Thewlis, Intel, Convenor
Ted Ts'o, IBM
Mats Wichmann, Intel
| 1.3 Changes in Membership |
(D. Thewlis)
|
None. Membership stands at six: Hewlett Packard,
IBM, Intel, Oracle, Sun, USENIX
| 1.4 Approval of Minutes from the Seventh Meeting
of the INCITS Study Group on Linux - February 24, 2005 |
(D. Thewlis)
|
Reference: LX/05-00016
The Minutes of the
Seventh Meeting of the INCITS SGL were approved without change. M/Cragun,
S/Stoughton, Unanimous.
| 1.5 Approval of the Draft Agenda for the June 7,
2005 Teleconference |
(D. Thewlis) |
Reference: LX/05-0021
The agenda was approved without change. M/Stoughton, S/Cragun, Unanimous.
1.6 Convenor's Annual Report to INCITS Executive Board for INCITS Study
Group on Linux
(D. Thewlis)
Reference: LX/05-0018
Noting the discussion at the end of the Annual Report on whether the Study
Group should be continued or turned into a Technical Committee, Mr. Thewlis
was requested to contact Ms. Higginbottom, the Chair of the INCITS Executive
Board, and discuss the question with her.
2. Convener's Remarks
|
(D. Thewlis)
|
Mr. Thewlis noted that he did not expect to complete the work under
item 3 in the agenda on this call, but rather to establish a subsequent conference
call or other ways forward that might be needed.
| 3. Linux Standard Base PAS, DIS 23360 Status |
|
| 3.1 Review
of LX/05-0017 (JTC 1/SC 22 N8999) - Summary
of Voting and Table of Comments for ISO/IEC DIS 23360, Linux Standard Base
Core Specification 2.0.1 |
(D. Thewlis)
|
Reference: LX/05-0017
Mr. Stoughton noted that the work of developing a preliminary disposition
of comments was well underway but not complete, and anticipated another week
or more to complete his review, prompting the scheduling of a follow-on teleconference
on 24 June (see below) when the preliminary disposition of comments document
would be complete. He added that the vast majority of all dispositions
at this point will be to accept the comments. In general, we would expect
that U.S. positions would be to support the Disposition of Comments as written;
however we will need to establish specific U.S. Positions on any items where
we expect controversy.
A comment that all responding NBs made in some form or another was in the
relationship of Linux to POSIX, and that the next draft will defer to POSIX
except in clearly identified areas where there are behavioral differences.
The LSB workgroup continues to try and identify these areas where possible,
and future versions will try to address options. Also we want to ensure
that there is no divergence between the document approved by ISO/IEC and
the document approved by FSG. All changes in last 6-9 months since 23360 committed
will be included in new draft. Currently the FSG continues to use version
numbers, the next one being 3.0 (the DIS is 2.0.1). Once the DIS becomes
an International Standard, version numbers will no longer be used to identify
specification releases, but instead the particular year of the standard (signifying
the base standard and Technical Corrigenda). The goal is to ensure that the
FSG and the International Standard remain in lockstep. However, if
for some reason the ISO community rejects some portion of a T.C. have to
figure out how to deal with it; probably by removing that feature from T.C.
and adding a new standalone module to support it. But the plan is that
there won't be two different versions of LSB. A key thing for everyone
to note is that the terminology on naming conventions has caused a lot of
confusion. The document being considered is the LSB Core, not just
the LSB. There are other specifications within the LSB family that
have not been submitted to ISO (yet) but still contain LSB in their title.
These may or may not be required for FSG trademark branding. One of
most notable differences between draft 2.0.1 submitted to ISO ballot and
the current state of the draft is structural: use of new style sheets
and appearance. Lots of moving things around so it has a more logical
structure; not a lot of real content change. Most section numbers changed;
page numbers changed.
Normative references are potentially a significant issue. ISO/IEC don't
like normative references to non-normative documents. ISO has some
wiggle room in case of PAS (initial submission plus one update). The long-term
goal is to fall into line with ISO policy; in the interim, the FSG is moving
towards that policy but not a gallop. Some significant problems have
been addressed, and are moving towards getting escrow copies of reference
specifications so URLs work. The FSG plans to look at weak normative
references but the work won't be complete this side of the Singapore meeting,
or indeed before publication; it would probably delay publication by many
months. Some are substantial documents that need to be reworked to
get into main specification. Hope is JTC 1 policy will come down to
allowing formal specs from a wider range of organizations than ISO and IEC,
so that e.g. IETF standards could be referenced, and other specs by recognized
bodies. If that ends up being policy that reduces the load. Still
two or three that don't meet that level of acceptance and would need further
work.
There is still a concern with "chip specs." ABIs reference specific
hardware information, e.g. Intel hardware manuals, which won't ever be public
specs. Sort of things we should be encouraging JTC 1 ad hoc to recognize
as being acceptable standard. As long as this is all moot for first
issuance, this isn't problem for Singapore. But what about something
in code base not in a published manual? Worst problem still going is
C++ underlying documents. That's not in play at this point. Are
their others on table that could block LSB Core? Several underlying
ELF specs are in a questionable status; some are at draft levels. Most
references remaining in the LSB Core are actually okay and fall into allowed
category. Getting them all into escrow is important; already have noticed
places where URLs have gone stale and can no longer find document.
3.2 Consideration of how the SGL wishes to approach
developing U.S. positions on NB comments for the Ballot Resolution Meeting
This will be based upon our review of the complete disposition of comments
once received.
| 4. Determination of U.S. Delegation to
DIS 23360 Ballot Resolution Meeting |
(D. Thewlis)
|
The delegates to the Ballot Resolution meeting
will be:
Mr. Cragun, Sun Microsystems
Mr. Thewlis, Intel, Head of Delegation
Mr. Ts'o, IBM
Mr. Wichmann, Intel
Mr. Stoughton is the Convenor of the Ballot
Resolution Meeting; as such he will not be part of a NB delegation.
Mr. Thewlis will file the required notification
with INCITS and ANSI before the deadline.
| 5. Next Meetings |
(D. Thewlis)
|
5.1 Establishment of
other INCITS SGL conference calls or meetings prior to Ballot Resolution
Meeting, if any.
The 9th meeting of the INCITS Study Group on Linux will be held by teleconference:
Friday, June 24
13:00-14:00 Eastern, 10:00-11:00 Pacific
Dial-in Number: 1-913-643-5111
Participant Passcode: 448655#
5.2 Ballot Resolution Meeting for DIS 23360 - 29
August-1 September, 2005 - Singapore
Reference: LX/05-0020
Mr. Thewlis noted that the individual members of the delegation are individually
responsible for making their hotel reservations and for registering for the meeting
(Page 2 of LX05/0020 contains the Registration and Hotel information).
Meeting Registrations and Hotel Reservations are both due by 15 August 2005.
We may have a U.S. Caucus on Sunday evening the 28th if anything happens
very late which we need to discuss prior to Monday morning. The Caucus
will be held at the Furama City Centre if it occurs.
Mr. Thewlis also requested the other members of the delegation to post their
arrival information and hotel choices to the group once they have taken care
of their travel arrangements.
| 6. Review of Action Items |
(D. Thewlis)
|
1. Mr. Thewlis to contact Ms. Higginbottom about the direction the
INCITS EB would like to pursue as far as maintaining a Linux-related TAG
in INCITS.
2. Mr. Thewlis to contact Ms. Higginbottom about the status of the
JTC 1 Ad Hoc on Directives and the direction being taken by that group on
normative references to non-ISO/IEC standards.
7. Adjournment
|
(D. Thewlis)
|
The meeting was adjourned at 17:05 Eastern time. M/Stoughton.